StefB28:

cinderin:

I have been reading this post and feel compelled to respond.

You are digging your heels in on this thing with your kids dad.

As you have so eliquently stated - (you think) you know what is best for these kids. You have a "right" as their mother.

Well, that's fine.

Every time you try (or successfully) keep your kids from their dad - you are putting a wedge between their relationship. A mothers job is to foster that relationship. Period.

Do you honestly think their dad would hurt either of them? Really? I dont see anything in your posts that says that. maybe he won't put them to bed, feed, wash and dress then exactly as you do, but that is your new reality.

You are going to be spending:

Nights during the week

Entire weekends

Weeks of vacation

Apart from these kids. Minimum.

Dad wants to feed them pizza and ice cream every day? Done. Dad thinks they only need a bath every couple days? Done. Dad thinks a winter coat isn't needed or sandals are ok in the rain? Done.

You aren't going to be there.

And if you are successful getting them no/little visitation. Your children will resent you for ruining their relationship with their father. Even if you wail about how you were "protecting them".

Time to wo-man up!

You have to let go that they won't be cared for like you would - he won't hurt them and they will be ok.

Your responsibility as a mother is to foster their relationship with their father.

You picked him. Time to make the best of it.

I agree with a lot of what you said.

I do not plan on trying to keep my kids from having a relationship with their dad. I do not plan on trying to limit his visitation. I do not think that my husband is incapable of caring for our boys in the long run. What I do think is that is that he just doesn't have the experience that he needs at this point to take care of them the way they deserve. He'll get there... I just don't believe that you can go from doing nothing in regards to your children's care to knowing how/when to do it all by yourself.

While I am certainly a control freak, my concern (believe it or not) is not that he'll do things differently than me (I know that he will & yes, it will be hard for me)--  It's that he won't do them at all. Left alone, he's put our kids to bed without feeding them, without changing their diapers, etc. on more than one occasion. That's not fair to my children & I can't sit back and let that happen.

So by the logic in the bolded portion, first time parents of newborns shouldn't be left alone with their babies, either, as they just don't know what they're doing. Maybe if you had made him bathe his children, or left him with them more early on, you wouldn't have this fear hanging over you.

mabenner1:

So by the logic in the bolded portion, first time parents of newborns shouldn't be left alone with their babies, either, as they just don't know what they're doing. Maybe if you had made him bathe his children, or left him with them more early on, you wouldn't have this fear hanging over you.

It's a little late for that though, huh? Hindsight is 20/20.

First, I have no personal experience with what your asking about. However I wanted to say that I'm sorry you are going through this. Even if he had plenty of experience taking care of the children, I'd still be very afraid to let him do this if I were you. To me it wouldn't be about not letting him have his time with your child, it's that he wants to take him so far away from you when you have just separated. If it was taking them 20 or 30 mins away ( and within the same state) I would say, well okay, they will be ok even if they do come back tired, hungery or unbathed. He's gonna have to figure it out if you are not going to be there to do it all for him like you have in the past. I'd be very uncomfortable in your situation. I know that doesn't really help you, but I wanted to say I understand your fears and your desire to take the kids somewhere where he couldn't take them away. If it were me, that's probably what I would do ( I'm not saying its the RIGHT thing to do, it's probably not) I think that now that you are separating things are different, and especially when you are newly separated I don't think him taking your child so far away in the best interest of your child. Again, I'm sorry you are dealing with this difficult situation.

carrianne:

First, I have no personal experience with what your asking about. However I wanted to say that I'm sorry you are going through this. Even if he had plenty of experience taking care of the children, I'd still be very afraid to let him do this if I were you. To me it wouldn't be about not letting him have his time with your child, it's that he wants to take him so far away from you when you have just separated. If it was taking them 20 or 30 mins away ( and within the same state) I would say, well okay, they will be ok even if they do come back tired, hungery or unbathed. He's gonna have to figure it out if you are not going to be there to do it all for him like you have in the past. I'd be very uncomfortable in your situation. I know that doesn't really help you, but I wanted to say I understand your fears and your desire to take the kids somewhere where he couldn't take them away. If it were me, that's probably what I would do ( I'm not saying its the RIGHT thing to do, it's probably not) I think that now that you are separating things are different, and especially when you are newly separated I don't think him taking your child so far away in the best interest of your child. Again, I'm sorry you are dealing with this difficult situation.

I agree with this 1000%

Trust your gut....if it's telling you that him taking the child away is a bad idea, it probably is and should not be allowed.  

Your soon to be ex needs to understand that you both have to let things cool off for a bit before allowing big trips like this. I think this is ultimately in the best interest of both your children. Like one of the PP's said, get your ducks in a row, get that custody arrangement in place, even if it's only temporary until the divorce is final and you agree on a permanent solution, and then talk about him being allowed to take your children out of state to visit family.

Hmmm.

If I was in the very beginning of what was looking to be a nasty divorce with my husband, there's no way on earth that he'd be taking one of our kids on a cross country trip.  No way in hell.  Not until custody arrangements are established, at the very least. 

It's kind of weird to me that so many people think OP is out of line for thinking this.  Maybe if it were a civil divorce where they were still friends, it would be different.  But it's not.  He can either travel cross county on his own and see his kids when he gets back, or he can wait until orders are established and then take them on his trip. 

And if he and his family haven't been very involved in the kids' life and caretaking up to this point, I'd question why he suddenly HAS to bring one of the kids with him on this trip.  Again, this looks like a messy divorce and not just a "Hey, it didn't work out" kind of thing.

I have been through this situation...I only have one child from my previous marriage and I was very paranoid and emotional, especially when my ex wanted to take my son out of state for a wedding.  

The OP is arrogant and overly confident and I feel that she's in for a very rude awakening...her ex husband has the SAME amount of rights as her...She wants to keep them, he wants to take them with him, it's the same thing.  They are both parents, have equal rights and if the can't compromise, a  court of law will decide.  However, they will NOT care that he's been absent, he is their father and has the RIGHT to see them, take the on vacation, have them for holidays, etc.  Get used to it.  

Does it suck?  Yes.  It is hard?  Absolutely?  But, own your part in this...you married him and chose to have children with him...Now you're a badass who knows everything about divorce...what happens when a judge asks you, If he was abusive, why were you in counseling to fix your marriage?  

 

cinderin:

I have been reading this post and feel compelled to respond.

You are digging your heels in on this thing with your kids dad.

As you have so eliquently stated - (you think) you know what is best for these kids. You have a "right" as their mother.

Well, that's fine.

Every time you try (or successfully) keep your kids from their dad - you are putting a wedge between their relationship. A mothers job is to foster that relationship. Period.

Do you honestly think their dad would hurt either of them? Really? I dont see anything in your posts that says that. maybe he won't put them to bed, feed, wash and dress then exactly as you do, but that is your new reality.

You are going to be spending:

Nights during the week

Entire weekends

Weeks of vacation

Apart from these kids. Minimum.

Dad wants to feed them pizza and ice cream every day? Done. Dad thinks they only need a bath every couple days? Done. Dad thinks a winter coat isn't needed or sandals are ok in the rain? Done.

You aren't going to be there.

And if you are successful getting them no/little visitation. Your children will resent you for ruining their relationship with their father. Even if you wail about how you were "protecting them".

Time to wo-man up!

You have to let go that they won't be cared for like you would - he won't hurt them and they will be ok.

Your responsibility as a mother is to foster their relationship with their father.

You picked him. Time to make the best of it.

 Love this posting, generally sums up what I was going to say .

JessiJane777:

I have been through this situation...I only have one child from my previous marriage and I was very paranoid and emotional, especially when my ex wanted to take my son out of state for a wedding.  

The OP is arrogant and overly confident and I feel that she's in for a very rude awakening...her ex husband has the SAME amount of rights as her...She wants to keep them, he wants to take them with him, it's the same thing.  They are both parents, have equal rights and if the can't compromise, a  court of law will decide.  However, they will NOT care that he's been absent, he is their father and has the RIGHT to see them, take the on vacation, have them for holidays, etc.  Get used to it.  

Does it suck?  Yes.  It is hard?  Absolutely?  But, own your part in this...you married him and chose to have children with him...Now you're a badass who knows everything about divorce...what happens when a judge asks you, If he was abusive, why were you in counseling to fix your marriage?  

Agreed. My husband has the SAME rights-- not MORE rights than I do & as you said, if we can't agree, the judge will decide. It's a shame that they couldn't decide that this week. Unfortunately, divorce & custody arrangements aren't that speedy, as you well know.

(Again, as I stated in my first post and reiterated in about another 10 posts, I do not plan on trying to keep my kids from my husband, limit his visitation, deny him holiday time, etc. This post was about my concern regarding this trip and why I didn't believe he should take our son out state this week. It was not a declaration that "I'm getting divorced and my husband will never see our children again because I'm the only one with rights," as some people seem to be implying.)

Why do you think I was in counseling to fix my marriage? Because I believed that, with help, our marriage could improve. Isn't that why ALL couples who go to counseling are there?

My divorce was just finalized on the 7th (yay!!) but no kids, thank god. However, if I was in your situation I wouldn't let him leave the state with either of your children. It sounds horrible but who's to say he'll come back with them once he leaves? I would definitely make sure something is set as soon as you file for divorce saying that neither of you will take the kids out of the state until the divorce is finalized and custody has been agreed upon. One of the things I learned from my divorce is that your soon-to-be-ex is capable of doing (and probably will do) things you NEVER expected. You almost have to act as if you don't know him at all, because sometimes it turns out that you really don't.

Keep your chin up, and remember that this is for the best for everyone involved.

Usually a lurker but here goes... I am extremely shocked that most on this thread are advising the OP to let her husband take the child. She has stated that he does not know, or even care to know, how to take care of a child. Will he be with family? Supposedly. But it is not his families responsibility to care for his child. By the way it sounds, he only wants to take the boy to create this illusion that he's a good father. If it were me, I would absolutely NEVER allow a soon-to-be ex to take my child across the country...esp. if I did not trust him and right before a divorce. I don't have kids and it literally baffles me that some woman would even allow this. OP - You're doing the right thing. GL in your divorce.

 

Oh and in response to those who state both parents have the same set of rights during a divorce: from personal experience, my brother and his ex were told that by law, neither parent can take a child across state lines without permission from the other parent.

Amanda1443994:

Usually a lurker but here goes... I am extremely shocked that most on this thread are advising the OP to let her husband take the child. She has stated that he does not know, or even care to know, how to take care of a child. Will he be with family? Supposedly. But it is not his families responsibility to care for his child. By the way it sounds, he only wants to take the boy to create this illusion that he's a good father. If it were me, I would absolutely NEVER allow a soon-to-be ex to take my child across the country...esp. if I did not trust him and right before a divorce. I don't have kids and it literally baffles me that some woman would even allow this. OP - You're doing the right thing. GL in your divorce.

 

Oh and in response to those who state both parents have the same set of rights during a divorce: from personal experience, my brother and his ex were told that by law, neither parent can take a child across state lines without permission from the other parent.

I believe that most of the pps that said to let him take the son is because of the way the OP came off. She seemed very angry and she didn't sound sincere in looking out for the best interest of the children and instead focusing on her anger towards her husband. She was so defensive when someone didn't agree with her. If she had a different attitude, she might have gotten different responses.

 

Amanda1443994:

Usually a lurker but here goes... I am extremely shocked that most on this thread are advising the OP to let her husband take the child. She has stated that he does not know, or even care to know, how to take care of a child. Will he be with family? Supposedly. But it is not his families responsibility to care for his child. By the way it sounds, he only wants to take the boy to create this illusion that he's a good father. If it were me, I would absolutely NEVER allow a soon-to-be ex to take my child across the country...esp. if I did not trust him and right before a divorce. I don't have kids and it literally baffles me that some woman would even allow this. OP - You're doing the right thing. GL in your divorce.

 

Oh and in response to those who state both parents have the same set of rights during a divorce: from personal experience, my brother and his ex were told that by law, neither parent can take a child across state lines without permission from the other parent.

I couldn't agree with you more!!! I've been saying this all along. She may have gotten defensive but those that have been divorced all know the beginning is so hard...so many emotions and when it comes to the kids and something like this, damn right she has a right to be upset and angry. FOr those reasons alone it isn't a good idea to take the kids out of state like that. Get legal stuff in place FIRST!

Amanda1443994:

Oh and in response to those who state both parents have the same set of rights during a divorce: from personal experience, my brother and his ex were told that by law, neither parent can take a child across state lines without permission from the other parent.

Honestly, this last bit needs to be nipped in the bud. Each state (federalism) has its own rules regarding situations like this. Please do not give out legal advice like it is truth. As for the OP and those who question her STBX's rights in leaving the state with his children. Just as you all worry that he may never come back with the kids, he could be worrying that SHE could run while he is gone. Because, that actually DOES happen. All we have is the OP's stance on how "awful" of a husband and parent he is. Not to mention that her reasoning, he doesnt know how to parent is extremely hypocritical, since she was a first time parent herself. For every "woe is me" biological mother story out there, there is a "biological father got raked over the coals" story as well. I mean really, if she is THAT worried about his abuse towards her and his neglect towards her children, why is she being so adamant about letting him have joint custody in the future?

I would ask him to not take the kids on the trip. 

There is a difference between a new parent not knowing what they are doing and an established parent not knowing what they are doing.  The first will (hopefully) do their best to learn as the child is growing, utilize resources to do so, and work hard to meet the child's needs.  The second has shown a track record of not figuring out what to do and has shown indifference. 

Wiscisbliss:

I would ask him to not take the kids on the trip. 

There is a difference between a new parent not knowing what they are doing and an established parent not knowing what they are doing.  The first will (hopefully) do their best to learn as the child is growing, utilize resources to do so, and work hard to meet the child's needs.  The second has shown a track record of not figuring out what to do and has shown indifference. 

Exactly.

Clearly-- the biggest one being my husband. I know it's probably hard to understand when you've been married all of 4 months, but some couples go through phases where one partner is uninterested in sex, but still participates in order to fulfill the other partner's needs. It happens. 

 Is that called for?! You have no idea how long anybody on this site has been with their SO. Only how long they have been married in most cases. For all you know she was with her boyfriend of 15 years before they got married. You do not need to attack someone who brings up a valid point against you. I actually was someone who could agree with your thoughts in the original post but then the more I read the more I felt you just harbor anger and came here for justification on your actions, if this is how you treat people offering their thoughts then why would anyone post replies for you? Obviously you were not ready for a difference if opinion here, as you so think you were.

 

WaffleyGoodness:

Clearly-- the biggest one being my husband. I know it's probably hard to understand when you've been married all of 4 months, but some couples go through phases where one partner is uninterested in sex, but still participates in order to fulfill the other partner's needs. It happens. 

 Is that called for?! You have no idea how long anybody on this site has been with their SO. Only how long they have been married in most cases. For all you know she was with her boyfriend of 15 years before they got married. You do not need to attack someone who brings up a valid point against you. I actually was someone who could agree with your thoughts in the original post but then the more I read the more I felt you just harbor anger and came here for justification on your actions, if this is how you treat people offering their thoughts then why would anyone post replies for you? Obviously you were not ready for a difference if opinion here, as you so think you were.

Yes, I do believe it was called for in response to the poster claiming "You've got issues," when I mentioned that I was having sex with my husband at the time to try to keep the peace at home. As I said, 4 months into my own marriage, I couldn't have ever imagined not wanting to have sex with my husband, but things can change.

I never asked for anyone's opinion on what I was doing-- I asked if anyone had experience with needing to get a TRO against their spouse. I was hoping that someone might be able to tell me about the process. I got lots of opinions from people who didn't agree with what I'd planned to do (& several who *did* agree with me) and that's fine, but I don't base my actions on what strangers tell me they think is right or wrong for my family. I do what I believe is right.

If I had posted this saying, "These are my plans...do you think it's a good idea?" then I feel like I'd graciously have to listen to being told that people didn't agree with me. But, I didn't. And if someone takes the time to respond only to attempt to insult me or tell me how wrong I am, you may not appreciate what I have to say because I'm not going to change my mind for you-- and snarky comments will be met with snarky responses.

People on TN just love to argue-- that's why this post has almost 3,000 page views. 

cinderin:

I have been reading this post and feel compelled to respond.

You are digging your heels in on this thing with your kids dad.

As you have so eliquently stated - (you think) you know what is best for these kids. You have a "right" as their mother.

Well, that's fine.

Every time you try (or successfully) keep your kids from their dad - you are putting a wedge between their relationship. A mothers job is to foster that relationship. Period.

Do you honestly think their dad would hurt either of them? Really? I dont see anything in your posts that says that. maybe he won't put them to bed, feed, wash and dress then exactly as you do, but that is your new reality.

You are going to be spending:

Nights during the week

Entire weekends

Weeks of vacation

Apart from these kids. Minimum.

Dad wants to feed them pizza and ice cream every day? Done. Dad thinks they only need a bath every couple days? Done. Dad thinks a winter coat isn't needed or sandals are ok in the rain? Done.

You aren't going to be there.

And if you are successful getting them no/little visitation. Your children will resent you for ruining their relationship with their father. Even if you wail about how you were "protecting them".

Time to wo-man up!

You have to let go that they won't be cared for like you would - he won't hurt them and they will be ok.

Your responsibility as a mother is to foster their relationship with their father.

You picked him. Time to make the best of it.

So many harsh words coming from women who have never been in that situation....she did not pick the man he became, so give her that..and you all speak like you'd be perfectly willing to hand your babies over to a fool you've got good reason to divorce, so who's the fool? Time to make the best of it? Yeah. I'd like to see YOU do that in the midst of a divorce. I've seen fathers who don't spend time with kids and then get them alone and the kids work his last nerve and get thrown into a wall, but hey mom gave in. Not to say it would be this case but you really don't know. And this talk about kids resenting their mom because she didn't foster the relationship....give me a DAMN break.....they better realize who takes care of and does everything for them..im not trying to hear that BS..fact is, lets see how much work he puts in upon the divorce and how much of a 'good' daddy he continues to be.....a part time father gets part-time respect...