The Nest

I don't understand why you would need to drive the kids somewhere?  Couldn't you walk?  Or use strollers/wagons?  That seems very odd to me. 

teach2183:

I don't understand why you would need to drive the kids somewhere?  Couldn't you walk?  Or use strollers/wagons?  That seems very odd to me. 

I don't think that many people pulling wagons full of kids can outwalk a bomb.

OP, you can't get legal advice on the internet.

I'm not a lawyer, but if I were in your position I would not do this.  If your agency has already talked to law enforcement and a lawyer and has signed consent forms from the parents specifically for this instance, I might consider it.

 

jtx:

teach2183:

I don't understand why you would need to drive the kids somewhere?  Couldn't you walk?  Or use strollers/wagons?  That seems very odd to me. 

I don't think that many people pulling wagons full of kids can outwalk a bomb.

But how fast could you really get multiple kids into a car and get the cars out of the lot?  And she said it's for fires too.  This doesn't seem very well thought out.

teach2183:

jtx:

teach2183:

I don't understand why you would need to drive the kids somewhere?  Couldn't you walk?  Or use strollers/wagons?  That seems very odd to me. 

I don't think that many people pulling wagons full of kids can outwalk a bomb.

But how fast could you really get multiple kids into a car and get the cars out of the lot?  And she said it's for fires too.  This doesn't seem very well thought out.

True.  I suppose if the fire had just started and was at risk of spreading to surrounding buildings, cars could work better.  But really, there's probably not much they can do if a situation were to occur.

I have worked in several child care centers and we not transported children offsite in any vehicles.

For fires you stand X amount of feet from the building and, in necessary, begin making phone calls to have parents pick their children up.  In case of evacuation (gas leak, carbon monoxide, etc) we walk to a building nearby and then begin making phone calls.  Even your little ones can walk a mile in an emergency and any infants should be placed in your emergency crib and pushed to the safe location.

That being said, there isn't a snowball's chance in hell that I am going to transport any children in my car.  I don't care what waiver the parents signed, if something happened to their child while I was driving him/her you better believe that parent would be suing my pants off and that is not a liability I am willing to take.  I don't know a single, responsible director/owner who would be willing to transport children in their private vehicle.

JoyGotDots:

I have worked in several child care centers and we not transported children offsite in any vehicles.

For fires you stand X amount of feet from the building and, in necessary, begin making phone calls to have parents pick their children up.  In case of evacuation (gas leak, carbon monoxide, etc) we walk to a building nearby and then begin making phone calls.  Even your little ones can walk a mile in an emergency and any infants should be placed in your emergency crib and pushed to the safe location.

That being said, there isn't a snowball's chance in hell that I am going to transport any children in my car.  I don't care what waiver the parents signed, if something happened to their child while I was driving him/her you better believe that parent would be suing my pants off and that is not a liability I am willing to take.  I don't know a single, responsible director/owner who would be willing to transport children in their private vehicle.

I agree with this completely.  I've never heard of driving kids off site for an emergency and no way would I do so.

I understand that no one can give legal advice I was just making sure I wasn;t missing something before I take this to my boss.  We are on a very busy street with no sidewalks, many children with limited mobility etc. Also we are on a very small lot surronded by unsafe areas for children, really a bad place for our agency all around.  We have run the drill taking children to cars and acutally it only takes about 2 minuets to evacuate, do the head count, take the kids to the cars, we don't have a lot of kids on our campus.

 I don't so much have a problem doing this in a true emergency as we really are just going down the road totally about 8 blocks but it's the drill aspect that has me really worked up.  Thanks for the responses I just wanted an outside opinion as everyone at work is in such a tissy already wanted to make sure it sounded crazy to other too.

rboisvert:

I understand that no one can give legal advice I was just making sure I wasn;t missing something before I take this to my boss.  We are on a very busy street with no sidewalks, many children with limited mobility etc. Also we are on a very small lot surronded by unsafe areas for children, really a bad place for our agency all around.  We have run the drill taking children to cars and acutally it only takes about 2 minuets to evacuate, do the head count, take the kids to the cars, we don't have a lot of kids on our campus.

 I don't so much have a problem doing this in a true emergency as we really are just going down the road totally about 8 blocks but it's the drill aspect that has me really worked up.  Thanks for the responses I just wanted an outside opinion as everyone at work is in such a tissy already wanted to make sure it sounded crazy to other too.

You should have a problem with it in a true emergency as well. There needs to be a better plan. No way in the world would I feel safe transporting a child 8 feet or 8 miles in a car without the proper booster seat or car seat. These are other peoples kids to worry about. I have worked with kids in numerous settings and I've never heard about a plan to drive a kid in a private vehicle during an emergency.

I work at a school in RI, and our procedure for a full evacuation is to walk the children to the off-site location (about a mile away). I'm not sure why you have to drive them. And yes, we have young children because its grades nursery - grade 12 at my school.

And yes, we do one drill a year for this. 

I am a parent and if my kid was transported without a car seat for a DRILL I would flip. Especially in the chaos of a full blown drill.

In a real emergency, all bets are off. 

 

I have worked in childcare centers in NY and we NEVER transported children in our cars.  It is illegal to transport a child 8 feet without a carseat.  I would not be happy with this.  We were also on a busy street with no sidewalks and the children practiced in very small groups walking on a walking rope.The teachers walked on the outside closest to the road.  We eventually moved to larger and larger groups until we were able to do a practice with everyone.  Young children were put into several evacuation cribs and pushed down the road.  We even had a large buggie that held 6 children that the toddlers were put in.  GL!

Not giving legal advice.

All I have to say is WTF.

As a parent, no way in hell would I let someone drive my child without a carseat for a drill.  No way, I don't care if it's only a mile.

If I were a teacher, I wouldn't want to do it either.

In a true emergency, I agree with Anka that all bets are off.  But I cannot imagine an emergency where driving the kids is that much better than just walking a certain distance away.  If a bomb or something is moving so quickly that you can't outwalk it, taking time to load up kids in a car (even without carseats) is going to slow you down just as much.

AnKa:

I am a parent and if my kid was transported without a car seat for a DRILL I would flip. Especially in the chaos of a full blown drill.

In a real emergency, all bets are off. 

 

But, Anka, if your child was killed because she wasn't properly restrained surely you would place that responsibility on the center, whose utmost goal is to provide safety for the children. 

Of course you would want them to do what is necessary in an emergency, anyone would think that.  However, if they were negligent and breaking the law you better believe there would be consequences.  As a former teacher and now administrator there is no way I would put that liability on myself.  I would much rather walk down the road (even in the road if I had to) with my students rather than transport a minor in my vehicle.

As for the children with limited mobility, my suggestion is to buy a large enough stroller or a multiple child buggy and push the ones who can't walk in that, just like infants have a emergency crib.  Get everyone out of the building, load them up, and start walking.

JoyDotGots - I think I agree. Once I thought more about it, I wouldn't like this PLAN for an emergency either.

But I guess it's also a little stupid to have only one plan anyway, since there is a sliding scale of a magnitude of emergencies. E.g. a bomb threat or biological attack is a LOT different from a localized fire. 

My preschool has several 'levels' of emergency plans and I think that is smart. I'd be OK with the last level of most severe emergency included a measure like piling kids in a truck, just to get them away fast enough, but that would be only OK in a 9/11 like situation, KWIM?

My old daycare had a 'walk out, push cribs out' type of a plan.

DS's daycare walks too.  The toddler and preschoolers walk (slowly, LOL) and the babies get loaded into a giant stroller. 

I would be willing to drive children in a true emergency but NOT for a drill.  That said, I think the whole plan needs to be rethought. 

This plan is asinine and sounds like something I would have thought out when I was twelve years old and babysitting.

First of all, from a logistical concern, what if you are counting on every person putting 3-5 kids in their car, but then, the day of the emergency, Sally gets a ride to work. Whoopsie!

If it was a true, true emergency, the police would be there within a few minutes. They could lead and follow behind you guys in their patrol cars as you walk or block off the road. 

I'm sure a simple Google search will turn up much better plans than this. 

 

When DS was in daycare they used to take the whole infant room at a time for walks in something like this, but I think theirs may have actually folded up for easier storage.  Keeping a few of these around and planning to walk/run the kids out of there is a far, far better plan (in both drills and emergencies) than trying to load them into a car.

kwynn:

If it was a true, true emergency, the police would be there within a few minutes. They could lead and follow behind you guys in their patrol cars as you walk or block off the road. 

I'm sure a simple Google search will turn up much better plans than this. 

 

I agree with this.  Has anyone talked to emergency services?  I work at a downtown office building, our evacuation plan, which has been co-ordinated with the police and fire departments, includes the police blocking off the roads around ours.  If it's a true emergency they don't want anyone driving into the area anyway and this gives us more room to get everyone walking away.

 

The agency clearly has not had an attorney look at their fabulous plan.

I think you should look into Bye Bye Buggies.  This is what they were made for.

Amazingly enough this was over 1 year in the planing, it blows my mind.  Just to clarify there are other emergency plans that do not require leaving the grounds, including just regular old fire drills.  NO ONE wants to put a child in their car and we keep getting the run arround when we ask questions.  It is unclear if our jobs are in danger if we refuse.  As far as this crazy plan can be thought out it is, I have 11 students and 8 staff so I have backups if staff are out.  The whole thing is a mess and everyone is on edge about this drill that we are supposedly getting parental permission to run.  I just don't see how this is leagal or ethical.  One can only hope this all blows up before anyone has to take a stand and say no.

No way in HECK would I transport a child in my own car unless it was a true, life or death emergency.

When I was in 3rd grade I missed the bus and my teacher drove me home. I wouldn't even do that for a student.