The Nest

They will do a new title search for the new buyers, so if there is anything it will show up then. However, I think that if you refi'd in 2008 and nothing showed up then from this issue, then it probably won't now either. Is this still an ongoing issue that you're dealing with your lawyer on, or did he say it was settled at one point? I'd maybe call him to double check.

 

Tax records are usually available on line. Just pull up your old house and see if there are any outstanding taxes...

It is not an ongoing issue in my mind anyway.  The last we heard from them was May of 2007.  Later that summer (say around August of 2007) I asked our lawyer if he ever heard anything else back from them and he said no that it seemed like they dropped it and were just hoping they could intimidate me into paying.  He told me to contact him if I heard anything further from them and he'd do the same if he did.  That was the last I spoke with him so I assume no news is good news.  And then nothing was mentioned in our refinanance last February so hopefully that was that. 

I just wasn't sure how those things worked.  I assume the new owners were harrassing the title company over it because their mortgage co got the bill and tried to pass it along to them.  And in turn they tried to pass it to us.  I just didn't know if they could say "well, ok we'll stop talking to this girl because she lawyered up but we'll slap a little lien on the her new house so we can get paid eventually".  

Jerseygirl16:

Long story made as short as possible:  We owned a house from July 2005 to July 2006.  It was new construction and although we were paying our mortgage with the full amount of estimated property taxes escrowed the township apparantly never assessed more than just the land in the time we owned the house.  They finally did the December after we sold it and the title company that closed the loan contacted us saying we owed $8k.  We contacted a lawyer who told us that we did not have to pay this money as the title company issued clear title on the house and should have caught the error then but didnt.  He said that was why you pay insurance and that we had a loophole to get out of paying it.  We let him handle dealing with the title company and he advised them he was representing us and that we would not be paying and were not obligated to do so.  Did you ever get any type of confirmation that whatever insurance your lawyer referenced actually paid the 8k?  A few months later (say May of 2007) we got another communication from the title co requesting we pay this money.  I reminded them that they were to speak directly to our lawyer in this matter.  He again told them that this was their problem to deal with and pay for and that was the last we heard of them.  I can't quite understand why your lawyer is fighting with the title company.  Shouldn't he be protesting the lack of appraisal on the house structure with the appraisal district?  Also, if your escrow was short for the structure assessment amount from the district, with your mortgage company, I would think they would have just raised your mortgage payments to account for the tax increase from the district.  Am I wrong on this?

Now we are selling our house Is this the same house you owned from July 2005-July 2006?  So are you trying to figure out if they can place a lien on a different house?  and I have this recurring nightmare that when they do the title search there will be a lien for $8k sitting there.  Could they have done that without telling us?  We did refinance in February of 2008 and nothing was mentioned then.  Would they have done a title search for a refi?  It was with the same company that already held the loan.  It was full doc though and no mention was made of any judgements on our credit report.
Also this February we bought DH a car and they said that our credit was excellent.  This would have shown then right? 

I'm just trying to reassure myself I'm worrying over nothing because we already have to come up with $30k to cover the loss we are taking on the house and another $8k would stink.  Because at that point fighting it would take too long and we are set to close August 5th.  

Thoughts? 

I believe when you get liened you are supposed to be notified via certified mail.  My company is a developer and we get liens on some of our properties by contractors that have done work on our properties.  Anyway, that's how we find out if we've been liened.  You'll usually get a notice prior to a lien being filed with a date that they demand money or a response and then at that point they will file the lien. 

Yes, it is possible that a lien was filed on your house without your knowledge.

I'm curious as to why you think you shouldn't have to pay the taxes? 

CaelenEsq:

Tax records are usually available on line. Just pull up your old house and see if there are any outstanding taxes...

Well, I know for a fact there are no outstanding taxes on that house (that could possibly be linked to us anyway... no idea the new owners situation).  We got a call a couple months ago from the title company that closed the original loan on our house.  At closing they had escrowed about $2500 from us for taxes that were never requested.  They were cleaning up their files and found a lot of money that they needed to return to people like us. Before contacting us they contacted the township and were told there were no outstanding taxes.  So someone somewhere paid that $8k.  Either the title company that closed the sale or the new owners were made to by the mortgage company holding their loan.  

My worry is not that the township placed a lien on us... I know they got paid from someone... but that the title company did as a way to get reimbursed since we were refuting their attempts to just get the money from us by asking. They never said they would but you never know. 

I can't imagine they can lien your current house for a house you previously owned.  If the title company didn't catch that prior to closing it's not your fault. 

ditzydi_2000:

Jerseygirl16:

Long story made as short as possible:  We owned a house from July 2005 to July 2006.  It was new construction and although we were paying our mortgage with the full amount of estimated property taxes escrowed the township apparantly never assessed more than just the land in the time we owned the house.  They finally did the December after we sold it and the title company that closed the loan contacted us saying we owed $8k.  We contacted a lawyer who told us that we did not have to pay this money as the title company issued clear title on the house and should have caught the error then but didnt.  He said that was why you pay insurance and that we had a loophole to get out of paying it.  We let him handle dealing with the title company and he advised them he was representing us and that we would not be paying and were not obligated to do so.  Did you ever get any type of confirmation that whatever insurance your lawyer referenced actually paid the 8k?  A few months later (say May of 2007) we got another communication from the title co requesting we pay this money.  I reminded them that they were to speak directly to our lawyer in this matter.  He again told them that this was their problem to deal with and pay for and that was the last we heard of them.  I can't quite understand why your lawyer is fighting with the title company.  Shouldn't he be protesting the lack of appraisal on the house structure with the appraisal district?  Also, if your escrow was short for the structure assessment amount from the district, with your mortgage company, I would think they would have just raised your mortgage payments to account for the tax increase from the district.  Am I wrong on this?

Now we are selling our house Is this the same house you owned from July 2005-July 2006?  So are you trying to figure out if they can place a lien on a different house?  and I have this recurring nightmare that when they do the title search there will be a lien for $8k sitting there.  Could they have done that without telling us?  We did refinance in February of 2008 and nothing was mentioned then.  Would they have done a title search for a refi?  It was with the same company that already held the loan.  It was full doc though and no mention was made of any judgements on our credit report.
Also this February we bought DH a car and they said that our credit was excellent.  This would have shown then right? 

I'm just trying to reassure myself I'm worrying over nothing because we already have to come up with $30k to cover the loss we are taking on the house and another $8k would stink.  Because at that point fighting it would take too long and we are set to close August 5th.  

Thoughts? 

I believe when you get liened you are supposed to be notified via certified mail.  My company is a developer and we get liens on some of our properties by contractors that have done work on our properties.  Anyway, that's how we find out if we've been liened.  You'll usually get a notice prior to a lien being filed with a date that they demand money or a response and then at that point they will file the lien. 

1.  We never got word who paid the money but I know it was paid by someone.  We were just refusing to pay something assessed 5 months after we no longer owned the house.   

2.  Apparantly the township said they could get around to assessing the property value (not just land) whenever they wanted even if it took a year and a half.  His argument was not that we would not have owed the money if we had still owned the house but that the title company that closed the loan should have caught this problem.  He said it was a loop hole but he was a real estate attorney and they really didn't have any way to legally come after us.  We just trusted his advice and let him handle it. 

3.  We only owned the house that had the late assesment on it from July 2005 to July 2006.  December 2006 was when the twp issued this large tax bill and the new owners went to the title co for the money.  The title co said they were not paying and divied it up between the length of time the parties owned the house and said our share was $8k.  

We no longer own the house and did not when the money was requested from us.  That was our main contention I guess if you get down to it.  

Thanks for the info!  I never got anything in the mail about a lien so hopefully that means that there was not one.  Could they not place a lien on a new property over something that happened to a previous property anyway? 

ditzydi_2000:

I can't imagine they can lien your current house for a house you previously owned.  If the title company didn't catch that prior to closing it's not your fault. 

Right.  That was our lawyers contention.  It was their fault that it was not caught.  They have errors and omissions insurance for that sort of thing.  

Ok... I feel better.  Thanks everyone! 

thedutchgirl:

Yes, it is possible that a lien was filed on your house without your knowledge.

I'm curious as to why you think you shouldn't have to pay the taxes? 

Well, if we still owned the house when it happened we definitely would have had to.  We were honestly not sure what our obligation was and that was why we contacted an attorney.  He explained it that this was something that was supposed to have been caught by the title company and the loan should not have been allowed to close as it was.  But, they did close it so that was  their mistake and we had a loophole to not to pay it.  He explained it better than I am I'm sure and that is why we had him handle the whole thing.  :)