The Nest

You crack me up, Danielle! I could never give up meat and certainly not dairy so I really applaud you. Rock on wit your bad self.

hannikan:

You crack me up, Danielle! I could never give up meat and certainly not dairy so I really applaud you. Rock on wit your bad self.

You could if you read the book, believe me. I was raised on steak. I frequent a place called CATTLEMEN'S for crying out loud. When I go to the city, I don't go to the chi-chi places, I go to the House of PRIME RIB. The few pages of detail in Skinny Biitch absolutely turned my mind AND my stomach around. It's over, no more. I won't say never again b/c I'm not that kind of person. But yeah, it's over. 

It does feel like an accomplishment  :)  I remember that.

I say see how the meat-free thing goes for a few months before you give up dairy. You don't want to take on too much at once because it might be too hard, and too big/fast of a chance for your stomach. Gradual is key.

hannikan:

You crack me up, Danielle! I could never give up meat and certainly not dairy so I really applaud you. Rock on wit your bad self.

I used to say the same thing. I've been meat free for a year and a half now with no regrets. I don't have as strong a feeling about dairy so I haven't given that up.

Yeah, I don't even like steak at all that's not what I mean. I've tried veggie burger and meat substitutes and no, can't stomach them. I do like vegetables though. My mom was a vegetarian when she was in her 20's and became really anemic so I've always been reluctant to do it. But of course if you are diligent about it I know you can make it work.

you'd be surprised I think, not that you're even interested but I think things have changed dramatically in the last couple of years. I had tried garden burgers a few years back and I hated them. But the ones I got are great and I got these italian 'meat'balls that are frozen and I put them in my spaghetti sauce and both DH and i LOVED them. I never would've thought.

Yeah, anemia is an issue but there's a couple veggies with plenty of iron. If you don't like them and don't eat them then you wouldn't get enough I'm sure. 

hannikan:

Yeah, I don't even like steak at all that's not what I mean. I've tried veggie burger and meat substitutes and no, can't stomach them. I do like vegetables though. My mom was a vegetarian when she was in her 20's and became really anemic so I've always been reluctant to do it. But of course if you are diligent about it I know you can make it work.

I think that's a mistake a lot of people make... Meat substitutes aren't that good (except for a select few - I can make some recommendations if you'd like). If you quit eating meat, then you probably shouldn't try too hard to replace things with meat texture and meat flavor. That's pretty futile.

DiamondWings:

you'd be surprised I think, not that you're even interested but I think things have changed dramatically in the last couple of years. I had tried garden burgers a few years back and I hated them. But the ones I got are great and I got these italian 'meat'balls that are frozen and I put them in my spaghetti sauce and both DH and i LOVED them. I never would've thought.

Yeah, anemia is an issue but there's a couple veggies with plenty of iron. If you don't like them and don't eat them then you wouldn't get enough I'm sure. 

The only veggie burger I've found I like is the Dr. Praeger's kind they sell at Trader Joe's. Seriously yummy. TJ's also makes pretty good chicken-less nuggets and frozen "meat" balls. Also their soyrizo (soy chorizo sausage) is fabulous - I use that a lot.

Don't bother with tofurkey though - that was an unsuccessful attempt on my FMIL's part last Thanksgiving... Now I just make myself a fabulous butternut squash, hazelnut and sage lasagna. Really good...

I'll probably get flamed for this, but Skinny *** probably had the opposite effect on me that it was supposed to. I had a hard time swallowing "diet advice" from former models (one who managed to get some nutrition certification). While most of my friends are veggie/vegan and I support their choices, I think that book is absolute crap. They're touting a one-sizes-fits-all-depriavation-diet without taking into consideration each person's dietary needs. I don't disagree with what they say on processed foods and sugar, but the book is based on their opinions and not necessarily sound advice. If you are going to stick with the veggie-ness and/or go vegan I would consult a nutritionist to make sure you're doing it right.

HOWEVER... that wasn't why I wanted to reply.  I came in to tell you if you do decide to give up dairy I'm pretty up to speed in that area and I wanted to recommend Toffutti's non-dairy sour cream. You'd be surprised! You wouldn't even miss real sour cream ;) I LOVE their tofu cream cheese as well. I eat it ever day.

Also, my old vegan roomate has fantastic faux-cheese recipes like "mozzarella sticks" made with breaded tofu and marinara. delicious. I will have to hit her up for the exact recipe and post for you.

 

 

I actually found very little of it their personal opinions. Most of it was direct scientific evidence, facts about legal proceedings and facts from the doctors that contributed to the book. Anyone who reads a diet book, no matter which one should consider that it may not meet their specific dietary needs.

I have to disagree about the deprivation. I'm all about avoiding feeling deprived and I'm a big girl, I can see where they're coming from but use my own mind as well. They also state that they're not perfect and don't follow it 100% of the time. 

It wasn't their opinions that convinced me, it was the science and the actual physical evidence. The only opinions I perceived is 'you are what you eat' that was expounded upon and their feelings about humans drinking the milk of another species being strange. Which is why I'm not sure about dairy still.

Other than that, the slaughterhouse accounts (which i had only knew a tiny bit of previously when I stopped eating red meat for 5 years) and the legal corruptness of the meat and dairy industry (actual facts). Those were not opinions. Those are things I did not know but make SO much sense to me now.

As I said, I will absolutely talk to my HK woman about it but all I know is I feel SO much better already. I'm an animal lover and there's just no way my conscience would let me put that into my body again. Maybe my feelings will dull over time, I don't know but I just couldn't ignore the facts. 

Yeah, I didn't want to launch into a huge opinionated discussion... I really just wanted to pump up the Tofutti (I Heart Tofutti), but I have never hated a book so much in my entire life and I have trouble with it.

I guess by depravation I meant that they expect you to cut so much out of your diet that if you do it cold turkey chances are you'll have a hard time sustaining it over time. (I'm not saying you will or that it's guaranteed to work that way, just that it seems like a setup for it). Not necessarily that you'd feel deprived when you make the switch.

And like I said, I have lots of veggie/vegan friends, I just think those two women are marketing a veganism propaganda book to make money and they know exactly what they're doing. I was totally put off by it.

But if you came over for a glass of wine I would gladly cook you a killer vegan meal.

 

no, no worries at all. I guess I just got a very different impression since they said 'don't do this all at once'. Pick one thing to cut out one week etc. I think for me, it just spoke my language (and not many people speak my language so I can definitely see how it wouldn't appeal to everyone). But I'm pretty strong-minded and I never feel that someone is going to try to make me do something I'm not ready to do.

If you're worried about anemia, take a daily vitamin with iron in it. Problem solved.

Also, I like the Morning Star products in the green box. Their Asian veggie patties are really yummy and my meat-eating husband loves their chick'n patties and nuggets. (I adore their fake bacon too, but on it's on own merits. If you try to compare it to regular bacon you'll be disappointed.)

Did you ever read Fast Food Nation? If you're the type to be socially conscious about the companies and industries you patronize, that's a good one. The chapter on slaughterhouses was totally shocking to me - not why you would think though. The book focuses a lot on the workers who work in these industries.

Passanie:

If you're worried about anemia, take a daily vitamin with iron in it. Problem solved.

Also, I like the Morning Star products in the green box. Their Asian veggie patties are really yummy and my meat-eating husband loves their chick'n patties and nuggets. (I adore their fake bacon too, but on it's on own merits. If you try to compare it to regular bacon you'll be disappointed.)

Did you ever read Fast Food Nation? If you're the type to be socially conscious about the companies and industries you patronize, that's a good one. The chapter on slaughterhouses was totally shocking to me - not why you would think though. The book focuses a lot on the workers who work in these industries.

Didn't read the book but some of it is actually quoted in SB. I did watch the movie but I know that didn't have as much info in it. The SB book has awesome recommendations of products they've tried and not just fit their guidelines but that they like. So far, I'm way impressed!

I'm totally with you on the meat thing. I was off it for many years but started eating chicken and turkey (only antibiotic and hormone free) for the pregnancy. I was afraid of eating too much soy stuff with the hormonal effects. i may stop eating the chicken again after the pregnancy but DH will be heartbroken, haha.

I was sort of prepping myself for a couple of years eating the Diestel turkey at Tday and it's delicious so much better than regular turkey. 

I also had given up dairy for many years and also started it back up for the pregnancy again, only organic,local,  hormone free etc. Cheese, yogurt, and ice cream. No milk or cream.I don't think I'll give it up again, it's good and it agrees with me.

I think the best thing is not to "label" yourself anything in particular so you can make your own mind up about what you want to eat at a particular time. If you cut out 99% of meat and only eat it at Tday, you are doing much better than you were before. 

Ditto morning star. I actually ate morning star "chicken nuggets" for lunch. With my ketchup made with agave instead of sugar. yum.

For a meat eater I sure eat a lot of veggie food. Passanie and Diamond Wings I'm officially inviting you to a future dinner party. 

DiamondWings:

hannikan:

You crack me up, Danielle! I could never give up meat and certainly not dairy so I really applaud you. Rock on wit your bad self.

You could if you read the book, believe me. I was raised on steak. I frequent a place called CATTLEMEN'S for crying out loud. When I go to the city, I don't go to the chi-chi places, I go to the House of PRIME RIB. The few pages of detail in Skinny Biitch absolutely turned my mind AND my stomach around. It's over, no more. I won't say never again b/c I'm not that kind of person. But yeah, it's over. 

I was a vegetarian for 3 years, and a vegan for 3 months (vegan not by choice). By the end of the 2nd year I started craving all sorts of things like hot dogs etc, and I don't even LIKE hotdogs... but I went crazy. I know everything--or a lot, probably not everything--about the cruelty of animals, and I will do my best to buy good meat, but I just won't give up everything. I applaud your for your ability, but just be sure that you are able to maintain a healthy and balanced diet. IT IS HARD when you don't eat meat. And it can cause really bad outcomes... Lots of people find meat to be the thing that causes people to have weight gain because meat has fat or meat it fatty... while in fact, it is generally carbs and not protein that cause this. I guess what i am saying is for what it is worth don't subsitute carbs, especially empty carbs, or your protein! 

Roni.Cedra:

DiamondWings:

hannikan:

You crack me up, Danielle! I could never give up meat and certainly not dairy so I really applaud you. Rock on wit your bad self.

You could if you read the book, believe me. I was raised on steak. I frequent a place called CATTLEMEN'S for crying out loud. When I go to the city, I don't go to the chi-chi places, I go to the House of PRIME RIB. The few pages of detail in Skinny Biitch absolutely turned my mind AND my stomach around. It's over, no more. I won't say never again b/c I'm not that kind of person. But yeah, it's over. 

I was a vegetarian for 3 years, and a vegan for 3 months (vegan not by choice). By the end of the 2nd year I started craving all sorts of things like hot dogs etc, and I don't even LIKE hotdogs... but I went crazy. I know everything--or a lot, probably not everything--about the cruelty of animals, and I will do my best to buy good meat, but I just won't give up everything. I applaud your for your ability, but just be sure that you are able to maintain a healthy and balanced diet. IT IS HARD when you don't eat meat. And it can cause really bad outcomes... Lots of people find meat to be the thing that causes people to have weight gain because meat has fat or meat it fatty... while in fact, it is generally carbs and not protein that cause this. I guess what i am saying is for what it is worth don't subsitute carbs, especially empty carbs, or your protein! 

no, I'm no idiot when it comes to carbs, believe me. Just b/c I am overweight and have had issues with food doesn't mean I don't know about nutrition. Not that YOU were implying that, but many people tend to make that assumption. I already knew about carbs so it was really helpful to have that foundation. I only buy Ezekiel bread (sprouted grains are processed like a veg rather than a starch) and that kind of stuff. I know everybody is different so like I said, I can't say for sure what my end result will be as far as what I'm eating or not eating. I'm hoping my body doesn't need animal proteins. I'm hoping my body likes the grains and veggies. Honestly, I used a lot of fat with my proteins so I wouldn't be surprised if that WAS a huge factor. I made cream sauces and marinated things in tons of oil etc. I'm more in love with the fats than the proteins and the carbs put together so i've noticed that I haven't had nearly as much fats with this. Still more than necessary but whaddya gonna do. Hopefully on Monday (when I go to my appt) I'll find out some specifics. I'm excited!

I am excited for you. I was just putting that out there because I know WAY WAY too many people who go veg and then eat all pastas and white bread with stuff. I think it is an easy habit to fall into because lots of restaurants find it it to be a suitable subsitute. 

Will you eat lots of soy? BTW, I have found that MISO soup is an amazing thing that vegetarians should have along with everyone else. Incredibly healthy and balanced in the carb/protein/fat intake.

I'd love to chat more! Nutrition fascinates me. And as for eating meat, I think what is bad is that so many people fail to remember/realize where their meat comes from or the face that it is has. Brian hunts and fishes, and I fish, etc etc, so I know where things come from... and I think that the distance from it has allowed for what has happened.

Have you seen, will you see, food inc? It looks fascinating!  

amyfelice:

I'm totally with you on the meat thing. I was off it for many years but started eating chicken and turkey (only antibiotic and hormone free) for the pregnancy. I was afraid of eating too much soy stuff with the hormonal effects. i may stop eating the chicken again after the pregnancy but DH will be heartbroken, haha.

I was sort of prepping myself for a couple of years eating the Diestel turkey at Tday and it's delicious so much better than regular turkey. 

I also had given up dairy for many years and also started it back up for the pregnancy again, only organic,local,  hormone free etc. Cheese, yogurt, and ice cream. No milk or cream.I don't think I'll give it up again, it's good and it agrees with me.

I think the best thing is not to "label" yourself anything in particular so you can make your own mind up about what you want to eat at a particular time. If you cut out 99% of meat and only eat it at Tday, you are doing much better than you were before. 

Same here, except for the dairy...I could never give up cheese or ice cream, though I can't stand milk. I was a strict vegetarian from age 13 to 19. It started out mostly as an experiment, but also for animal rights reasons. I cut out the different meats gradually...first pork, then beef, then poultry, then fish. I  started eating fish again at 19 because I was working in Alaska for a summer and had access to free, freshly caught fish anytime I wanted it (and BTW I was really poor). Then I started eating chicken and turkey again a couple of years ago to gear up for pregnancy. I'm super picky now about the meat that I buy...pretty much only from Whole Foods/TJ's. I doubt I'll ever eat beef or pork again...it just doesn't appeal to me (not to mention I have NO idea how to cook it).

I agree that it's best not to try to fit any particular label. You can be a vegetarian most of the year but still eat meat for special occasions like holidays. Those traditions have emotional attachments that are really hard to break, and IMO they don't need to be broken. 

I think it's great what you are doing, D!  It sounds like you are going about it the right way, and that your nutrition won't suffer in order for your conscience to be clear, unlike some of the vegetarians I've known over the years.

Yes and also the other hard part is going to people's houses for dinner. You may want to keep one thing you are willing to eat, like fish, in case someone wants to cook for you. That always made me feel bad, having people try to jump through hoops for my dietary needs. No meat, fish or dairy! You can only imagine.

Wow Zoe, i would love to have fresh Alaskan fish any time I wanted it, it's os expensive here. That was the first thing I added back so going out to dinner and weddings etc would not be such a royal pain the arse!!! 

I just wanted to say that for me, it's a positive thing that I'm excited and happy about. I'd rather concentrate on that than worry about the negatives because life is full of them and they'll come regardless. I'm not gonna stress about the 'hard parts' and the 'just be sures' etc. I don't feel at all like I'm going into this blind, though I'm sure a lot of people do. I'm at a point in life where I wouldn't have made the change if I wasn't ready to do so. Also, I feel I'm pretty balanced with everything and nobody's perfect all the time. 

And thank you so much to everyone for giving me a little taste of your lives and how you've dealt with it, I truly appreciate that!

Now... what to cook for dinner tonight, eeeee!!!! Exciting stuff! lol... 

Oh I was not trying to be negative. Just saying that rules are sometimes meant to be broken. Enjoy, I loved being veggie and will probably go back to it soon.

amyfelice:

I think the best thing is not to "label" yourself anything in particular so you can make your own mind up about what you want to eat at a particular time. If you cut out 99% of meat and only eat it at Tday, you are doing much better than you were before. 

That is an excellent idea (and will probably save you a lot of crap from other people).