Lawyers are managed by other lawyers.  Lawyers do not ever get any management training, so they don't know how to manage.  Which is why law firms are falling apart, and probably why a lot of sh!tty behavior is tolerated.  They just don't know any other way.

EastSideFluffy:

Lawyers are managed by other lawyers.  Lawyers do not ever get any management training, so they don't know how to manage.  Which is why law firms are falling apart, and probably why a lot of sh!tty behavior is tolerated.  They just don't know any other way.

 

Ditto all of this. Since I was a business undergrad, I probably have more actual education on management and org. behavior than any of my supervisors.

envinoveritas:

My question is, why is this acceptable for the lawyer?

It's not acceptable.

EastSideFluffy:

Lawyers are managed by other lawyers.  Lawyers do not ever get any management training, so they don't know how to manage.  Which is why law firms are falling apart, and probably why a lot of sh!tty behavior is tolerated.  They just don't know any other way.

 

Ditto, 100%. 

I'm in house counsel and I can tell you that would NOT be tolerated.  One of our performance metrics is "customer service."

I'm sorry - you should report the lawyer to his/her immediate supervisor.

I don't disagree with ESF, but I'll put a slightly different spin on it.

The lawyers who excel are often (not always, but often) the ones who are most aggressive.  They are fearless about asserting themselves, certain of their judgments and conclusions, and unwilling to be easily backed into a corner.  All of these things are valuable skills for litigation, and even for the types of negotiations and consultations that are the bread and butter of most attorneys' practices.

These same characteristics carry over into other aspects of these attorneys' lives, including their interactions with colleagues, even when they aren't meant to.  So your employer has a choice -- hire the aggressive attorney who will fight for the company the way they want their in house counsel to do and accept a little collateral damage along the way, or hire the kinder, gentler attorney who will make everyone around them feel happy, but may not be the scary attack dog that the company wants to be able to turn to when the crap hits the fan.  (It plays out this way in private practice, too -- many of the horrible managers are kept around and retain their positions of power and authority in firms because they are really successful at the portions of their job that people pay for, and you don't tend to tell the highest billing attorney in your firm that they're a crap manager and need to stop yelling at their secretary or you'll get rid of them.)

volenti:

I don't disagree with ESF, but I'll put a slightly different spin on it.

The lawyers who excel are often (not always, but often) the ones who are most aggressive.  They are fearless about asserting themselves, certain of their judgments and conclusions, and unwilling to be easily backed into a corner.  All of these things are valuable skills for litigation, and even for the types of negotiations and consultations that are the bread and butter of most attorneys' practices.

These same characteristics carry over into other aspects of these attorneys' lives, including their interactions with colleagues, even when they aren't meant to.  So your employer has a choice -- hire the aggressive attorney who will fight for the company the way they want their in house counsel to do and accept a little collateral damage along the way, or hire the kinder, gentler attorney who will make everyone around them feel happy, but may not be the scary attack dog that the company wants to be able to turn to when the crap hits the fan.  (It plays out this way in private practice, too -- many of the horrible managers are kept around and retain their positions of power and authority in firms because they are really successful at the portions of their job that people pay for, and you don't tend to tell the highest billing attorney in your firm that they're a crap manager and need to stop yelling at their secretary or you'll get rid of them.)

I think that is well said and true.  However, in my job, we're expected to be able to turn it on and off.  The first time my client saw me "go all lawyer" on someone in a mediation, they were surprised b/c that is not the style I use when interacting with them.  They commented later that I was a meanie, but they were glad I was their meanie.

volenti:

I don't disagree with ESF, but I'll put a slightly different spin on it.

The lawyers who excel are often (not always, but often) the ones who are most aggressive.  They are fearless about asserting themselves, certain of their judgments and conclusions, and unwilling to be easily backed into a corner.  All of these things are valuable skills for litigation, and even for the types of negotiations and consultations that are the bread and butter of most attorneys' practices.

These same characteristics carry over into other aspects of these attorneys' lives, including their interactions with colleagues, even when they aren't meant to.  So your employer has a choice -- hire the aggressive attorney who will fight for the company the way they want their in house counsel to do and accept a little collateral damage along the way, or hire the kinder, gentler attorney who will make everyone around them feel happy, but may not be the scary attack dog that the company wants to be able to turn to when the crap hits the fan.  (It plays out this way in private practice, too -- many of the horrible managers are kept around and retain their positions of power and authority in firms because they are really successful at the portions of their job that people pay for, and you don't tend to tell the highest billing attorney in your firm that they're a crap manager and need to stop yelling at their secretary or you'll get rid of them.)

This exactly.  It's one of the things I hated most about the practice of law.  Having to work with people like that, and the fact that the partners expected me to act that way also.

I don't think it's acceptable everywhere, certainly not at my firm.  I got a talking to a few times for my "attitude" with staff. 

Meh. I don't think it's that hard to play different roles.  If I need to be nice, I'm nice.  If I need to be mean, I'm mean.

My clients have direct say on what goes in my review.  I'm sweet as pie to them unless they really fuckup.

10YearsTogether:

I don't think it's acceptable everywhere, certainly not at my firm.  I got a talking to a few times for my "attitude" with staff. 

I cannot see you having an "attitude".  You seem sweet as pie.

UDShoeGal92306:

10YearsTogether:

I don't think it's acceptable everywhere, certainly not at my firm.  I got a talking to a few times for my "attitude" with staff. 

I cannot see you having an "attitude".  You seem sweet as pie.

[snort]

I would never want to work for 10Years.  She is a nightmare to staff with her unreasonable requests.

weemz:

UDShoeGal92306:

10YearsTogether:

I don't think it's acceptable everywhere, certainly not at my firm.  I got a talking to a few times for my "attitude" with staff. 

I cannot see you having an "attitude".  You seem sweet as pie.

[snort]

I would never want to work for 10Years.  She is a nightmare to staff with her unreasonable requests.

Not anymore!  We lost 3 people, so now the 2 people left are swimming in tasks from the boss and I try to lighten their burden.  Which means I now know how to make coffee, take my own messages, and I don't do dictation much anymore, just when I am really slammed. 

Sweet as pie - I like that. 

10YT really is sweet as pie.

Hmm...perhaps someone should build a training class "how not to be a difficult person for lawyers who get sh!t done".

Wink wink

Also, I've worked at several F500 firms in the past, and typically our in-house counsel is very "employer-advocate". This company, it seems to be the opposite - operations calls her "the land of no".

Hee

Simpsongal1:

I'm sorry - you should report the lawyer to his/her immediate supervisor.

Uh, no, you shouldn't.  This is a CLIENT.  Doesn't work like that.  You have to keep the clients happy.