I'll actually go a step further and say that this is as huge as cheating. It's a form of lying and betrayal and it shows a certain depth and extent of selfishness that's hard to overcome.

Financial problems are one of the number 1 causes of divorce, for good reason. I dunno that I'd just have called her a bad mother- I'd probably asked for a divorce, especially if I already forgave once. I could never tolerate it, and I don't think I'd ever feel like I could trust my partner again.

Definitely torn on this one.

On the one hand, what she did was awful and inexcusable.

On the other hand, it's not like she racked up hundreds of thousands in gambling debt or something.

I think the husband in this situation has every right to feel mislead and betrayed, especially since this is the second time it's happened.

But, call her a terrible mother? That's pure, illogical anger.

I'm 100% on-board The Smock Train on this one.

She's clearly in the wrong.

But he's wrong too. I understand being angry and upset and saying things that you may not actually mean, but it seems like he was pretty cruel.

Hypothetical question: If someone posted that her husband confessed to an affair, 5 years after he'd already cheated once, and she called him a terrible husband and father and waste of skin, etc, would you think she was unnecessarily harsh?

I think freaking out when you find out you've been lied to repeatedly is pretty normal.

And for those not caught up... it's approximately a total of $45k between the first time and this time. Not just a measly $8k.

And FOUR MONTHS after he finally started to loosen his grip on the finances... lookey what happened! 

If my H had 8k of debt with nothing to show for it, I wouldn't yell and scream. I would cry and quietly get a divorce. I told H before we were married any financial infidelity would end in divorce, so there wouldn't be any need for yelling.

As for OP's situation, I think saying things like your a bad person or you are always *** up good things over 8k of debt could be said in anger and could be forgiven.

But telling her she is a waste and the thought of her raising their children disgusts him seems very over the top and emotionally abusive.

Yeah, she's a douchebag. Holy hell, $45k??!

45K on nothing to show and she claims she doesn't have a problem? Um yes. I see an obvious, glaring problem.

I would be very very very unhappy. I would have walked away when she lied about 37k of debt 5 years ago.

PartiallySunny:

But telling her she is a waste and the thought of her raising their children disgusts him seems very over the top and emotionally abusive.

I would be disgusted at the thought of raising a child with a liar too. 

The $8k would be one thing if it was the first time.  People eff up.

But the fact that it was originally $30k-something and then she did it AGAIN (and you KNOW that it would've been a lot more than $8k if they weren't refinancing and she wasn't FORCED to come clean.  If things were status quo, I wouldn't be surprised if that number just kept going up and up until HE finally discovered it)... dealbreaker.  The end. 

There is a fine line here between appropriate anger and verbal abuse. The image I got from the description makes me think the H crossed a line. Of course, none of us really knows how the H really reacted because we weren't there.

PartiallySunny:

There is a fine line here between appropriate anger and verbal abuse. The image I got from the description makes me think the H crossed a line. Of course, none of us really knows how the H really reacted because we weren't there.

If my H did this to me for the SECOND time after I had FINALLY relaxed a little and put our financial security in jeopardy...

I would tell him he was a fooking waste of skin too.

And he'd deserve it. 

smock.smock:

Hypothetical question: If someone posted that her husband confessed to an affair, 5 years after he'd already cheated once, and she called him a terrible husband and father and waste of skin, etc, would you think she was unnecessarily harsh?

I think freaking out when you find out you've been lied to repeatedly is pretty normal.

Yes, I would think it was harsh. It's not fair fighting. 

I'm not saying that I am so perfect that I wouldn't do it, but I think I would regret not sticking to the topic. Ideally, I would recognize that I wasn't in a place to discuss and I would excuse myself to freak out.

They are both wrong. One is a breach of trust and an addict in denial. The other is throwing jabs and trying to hurt her anyway he can, which is a breach of trust in a way, too.

Financial infidelity was the straw that broke my back regarding my XH.  I filed for divorce after the first time, and I'd do it again.

ETA:  And yeah, when I found out, I used language that would have made George Carlin blush.  I said some terrible things to him, but I still don't regret them. 

imoan:

PartiallySunny:

There is a fine line here between appropriate anger and verbal abuse. The image I got from the description makes me think the H crossed a line. Of course, none of us really knows how the H really reacted because we weren't there.

If my H did this to me for the SECOND time after I had FINALLY relaxed a little and put our financial security in jeopardy...

I would tell him he was a fooking waste of skin too.

And he'd deserve it. 

Of course I believe he should divorce her. She had issues that she isn't even trying to address. When a person suggested individual and marriage counseling, she only addressed the marriage counseling... makes me think she has no plans on trying to "get better" or is blaming the need to shop on her spouse. No good could come of that.

PartiallySunny:

Just shows how different we are, Imoan. 

Wow... that was pretty holier-than-thou!

broccolitree:

In that situation, I would be absolutely apoplectic. I honestly don't know that I'd be coherent enough to form a sentence. I would probably regret whatever I said after I calmed down, but I would be f*ckin RIPSHIT.

This is basically how I feel. 

Looking back, I would feel like I could have handled it better. So, yeah. It's easy to judge him because I am on the outside looking in.

I do think this is a divorceable offense and I do think that she is overlooking more than her spending addiction.

pedantic_wench:

Can someone give me a sound, rational reason as to why this wouldn't constitute automatic divorce?

I don't think there is one. 

I can't imagine this level of betrayal, and I cannot imagine what her H is feeling. 

At the same time, I feel sad for her. None of this is easy, there is no winner, and hearing the thing she heard (true or not, justified or not) couldn't have been easy. 

pedantic_wench:

Can someone give me a sound, rational reason as to why this wouldn't constitute automatic divorce?

Uh, maybe the $8k in debt was all to give orphans food and toys?

Or she bought someone a liver?

Or maybe she bought her H secret life-saving medicine that she gave him in his sleep to save his life? And didn't want to seem like a hero?